From Naked Trucks to Modular Campers: A Deep Dive with Mountain State Overland

Lee: Welcome everyone to the overland radio show. Uh, tonight's episode is going to be somewhat different. This is a little bit, uh, um, one of those things that I don't normally do. So we're tonight, we're actually doing a recorded podcast in the video form, just like we do when we do our live shows. And I got some special guests tonight. I have a couple of the guys from a mountain state. Overland is many of you know them as Ms. Overland, I think is how they have their Instagram and such. But, uh, anyway, we're going to do some catching up. We haven't had a chance to visit and talk since I think last year at mountain West was the last time I saw the guys. And so, yeah, we're going to we're just going to catch up, see what they got going on new. And who knows, they may have some pretty cool announcements. So here we go. Ellis, welcome to the show.
Jason: Hey, buddy. How are we? We're good. I see you got a well-worn hat on from from a couple of years ago. How's that thing treating you?

Lee: Smells like a cattle field.

Jason: Smells like a cattle field.

Lee: It is the story, but for those of you listening and not watching a couple of years ago, Jason and the team came through and camped with me up here on the island. And, um, Jason's like dude, you need a hat. I don't have another hat. So he's like here You just take my hat and I thought well, that's pretty cool man. I get the guys worn out hat that But no, I was actually really grateful for it and it to be honestly I've wore it probably I Don't know three or four times at least and every time I put it on I'm like, I really should wash this hat. I Jason, if you will, which, yeah, I don't know.

Jason: There's not much, I don't have as much going on up top as you do.

Lee: Yeah. So, uh, no, I, I have it and I have my stickers that I put on the IU cab that you gave me. So, uh, and I've had people ask me time and time again, where'd you get those? And I was like, man, I got connections, but I can't give them to you. I don't want to get bombarded. So tonight we have Jason and we have Eric. Both, you know, Jason's the OG and Eric is like the OG-er, right? If that is a term, I guess we could use. I mean, you've been there longer than anybody next to Jason, right?

Eric: No, we still have a bunch of team members that are involved. We have Ben. He's been posting some videos on the channel. We saw John, who's our graphic design designer. Yeah, they don't count. Ben don't count.

Lee: Ben's having a good time, man. Ben is, for those of you who don't know, you gotta watch it, but Ben is, I'm going to say he's a 30 to 35 year old body with a 13 year old disposition. He just likes to have a good time. And that's all there is to it. Ben is about the moment that he's in and having a good time. So, yeah, that's what I'd say.

Jason: I'd argue to say that he's got a 13 year old body, too, because I haven't I haven't been that skinny in about 35 years.

Eric: So, yeah, he does wear a small, a small T-shirt. Are you serious? Does he really?

Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Y'all not lean and mean. Yeah, I know. I remember he eats really well. I was really shocked at how much he, he could, uh, put away, but he's also, uh, he's wound pretty or strong, pretty tight. So I'm sure his metabolism is going at an overdrive, but, uh, So what else, uh, what else is going on with you guys? Anything? Uh, I mean, we do have some kind of cool things that we'll talk about here as we get into the, the episode. Um, and then after we're done, I'm going to edit this for everybody listening or watch or that'll eventually watch this. Uh, and I'm gonna post some pictures and Jason's truck is a little naked. It is right there.

Jason: Well, I mean, we, we started the year, I guess, going into kind of this new Tacoma that came out, right? Um, I was kind of interested to see what it looked like. Then we saw it at the expo. And just like any new truck, you're, you're thinking like, ah, do I want to get the first year? Right. I think we've all got to get that figured out. Yep. We all have, um, kind of our own opinions on that. Um, so it kind of started off the beginning of the year. We, we were really focusing on, Eric. So Eric, Eric has something he's working on. I'll probably lead into that first. Yeah, go ahead for it, Eric.

Eric: Yeah, so last year, I hydrolocked the Tacoma. on a guided trip. So, and of course it was the guided trip that we weren't kind of like filming our normal trips. So we had a guest tow us out, tow me out, spent the night at the gas station. We overnighted a part that didn't fix it and then towed it to a dealership and they said basically the engine blew up. So yeah, totally devastating. Ended up enlisting the help of John Brochu, who's ADV 4x4 fabrication guy. And he came and helped me strip the Tacoma in the parking lot of the dealership there. So got all that stuff sorted out and ultimately decided that we were going to get a new truck. So then began the search for a new truck. The search for the new truck lasted about I want to say two days after we got the payout from the insurance company and we got ourselves a 2021 Tundra Crew Max 4x4 V8 with the big old 5.7. So that's what we're building and are in the process of building. And we're actually filming a build series that's a little bit different from how MSO has done build series in the past. Me and my wife are pretty much building the entire truck in our driveway with the exception of the camper. So over the last three weeks leading up to this first guided trip, that was this past weekend, we installed the suspension, all the armor from Victory, Bilstein shocks, And then like the Midland radio and the compressor and all the trail ready.

Lee: Yeah. You got to have the middle. Okay. So there are a lot, but you got two questions for you. Yeah. When you say strip the truck in the parking lot, he didn't start turning here.

Jason: Okay. Strip of the parking lot with the truck.

Eric: I didn't strip in front of the truck. No, no, no. How you camp off of it too.

Lee: We did.

Jason: Yeah.

Lee: Tell everybody about that.

Jason: Wow. What a project.

Lee: When you said that, I, for those of you listening or will be listening to this, if you haven't seen it, you know, he had an Alucab that was fully built out on this. It was a Tacoma, wasn't it?

Eric: Yeah. It was a Tacoma.

Lee: 2018 Tacoma. You know, fully built out. So when he said, He enlisted the help of someone and they stripped it down in the parking lot. The first thing that came to my mind was, did you take the audio cab off? So you did tell us about that.

Eric: Yeah, that was a whole thing. So the dealership that we got it towed to was two hours from my house. Uh, and so it spent a week there at the dealership where I got diagnosed and everything. Um, but ultimately the dealership was such a huge help. They actually had a forklift on site. And, um, so we, uh, I rented a 20 foot U-Haul, uh, and drove that up there. No kidding. We lifted it off the truck with a, with a big old forklift. I'll send you pictures so you can put them on the recording and stuff. Um, and loaded it into the back of the. into the back of U-Haul with all the goose gear and the winch and all the light bars and all the stuff that I knew the insurance company wasn't going to pay out on so.

Lee: Oh my gosh. That's insane.

Eric: Yeah, I just lucked out lucked out that that the dealership had a forklift there.

Lee: Oh my gosh. Okay, that's that's crazy. The the second question I just totally forgot. I'm just kidding. That one really just threw me off is the whole When you said you were tearing it apart, you know stripping it down. I mean all I can How are you gonna do that? How you can but in the grand scheme of things a big U-Haul You could set it in there with the four glass. So it makes sense. I mean I get it You just got to brace it up a little bit. And so I You can't use that AluCab on this new truck, right? So now you're going to go to an AluCabin? That was my second question. See, I knew you'd come to me.

Eric: Yeah, that's, that's exactly correct. So I sold the camper to a friend off Instagram, and he's, he's already got it installed and has been taking it all over the place. So I'm glad that it's getting put to use. But yeah, we're, we're gonna put the new mod cap canopy from the cabin, I guess.

Lee: Well, I knew they had the canopy, but, but I didn't know they had the one for the full size. So they are doing it for both of them. So that's news for me and probably for some other folks that are listening or that I was, I wasn't certain that they were going to do it for both models. So that's great information. Um, Still can't believe you tore the parking lot. Can't wait to see that. Geez.

Jason: I think the interesting thing, the interesting thing about those, the insurance piece of it, right? Like, I don't know if you've covered that and talked, you know, overland or overland vehicle specialty vehicle insurance on your show, Lee, but that is definitely I mean, I went through it when my, my Tacoma was rear ended. Um, I was, I was Eric's shoulder to cry on when things were taking a little bit too long and helping him stay, you know, push, push, push. I honestly gave up at some point in time because I thought, man, I don't know if they're going to do it. And, uh, yeah. Do you have any tips for anybody? Cause that's, that's a big one.

Lee: So it's called, what's the name of it? Is it a company?

Eric: No, like, there's plenty of insurance companies out there for specialty vehicles. I just have normal Geico.

Lee: Okay, so they I'm guessing they kicked and screamed and probably threw a fit and tried to fight it.

Eric: Yeah, so at least with Geico, you have a modifications endorsement, right? That's what they call it's an additional policy on top of your regular vehicle policy. And you can pay a certain dollar amount. So I was paying for, you know, $22,000 enough to cover the value of all the modifications on the truck. Right. But they came back after they decided to hold the truck and said, we'll pay you out $809. on that $20,000 policy. Yeah. What? Yeah. So it ultimately took like almost two full months of showing them the receipts, documenting all the when I had calls with them when the modification endorsement increased in value. So the best advice I can give to anyone is like, document everything meticulously. and do it written over email with the insurance company because they didn't have any records of call recordings from when I had called them and added more value to that endorsement and all that kind of stuff. I'm sure they had it somewhere, but yeah, ultimately it came down to me having all the receipts and just finding them basically.

Lee: Interesting. Yeah, that reminds me that at, at the, um, at the more expo last year, speaking of which is coming up in a few weeks, April 19th and 20th and Springfield, Missouri, just a quick plug for those guys. But, uh, there was somebody there that specialized in overland vehicle insurance. That was their, their niche.

Jason: Um, Phoenix, huh? I think, um, I think the name I was looking for, um, is Phoenix insurance. So that sounds right. Not affiliated with them whatsoever. But, um, I remember when Eric was going through this, I was also kind of interested in again, after going through my own experience, cause it's a little bit different. He, it was kind of a self inflicted injury, right? So he was driving the vehicle nature. totaled his vehicle. Mine, I was rear-ended. So two different scenarios. Ultimately, my insurance would have never paid for it unless I unless maybe it was an uninsured or underinsured motorist or something like that. Right? Right. Um, so, but we still had somebody to go after in my incidents, my insurance company could say, well, if they don't pull through, we can go after them. Right? I think that's how it works. So Phoenix insurance, when I was looking, um, with Eric's situation, they've got a bunch of YouTube channels. Um, they were, I believe that Overland Expo West last year, they were probably at more, Um, they may be there again this year.

Lee: Um, so yeah, you're, you're, you're spot on. It's them.

Jason: Um, they, uh, one of the guys that works at CB adventure supply, um, has that insurance and it's expensive. Um, but there's a, I think there's a value and added value of peace of mind. Um, you know, and ultimately when, when Eric got his claim covered, he found a Geico. broker. When I was just a broker that actually just sold Geico insurance, right? And then you went physically in an office and all but strangled somebody to get their attention to say, you have to pay me. This is ridiculous, right?

Eric: Yeah, I went to the sales office and it was like a franchise sales office, right? So they basically just send leads to Geico and sell those policies. But I sat down with him maybe an hour and a half before they closed. And I was like, I know you can't do anything on the claim side, but you're going to sit here and we're going to call together until you get me connected with the right person. And it worked a little and like 36 hours later, I had a check. Yeah.

Lee: Well, good for you, man. I'm glad that that all worked out. I could see where that would be a nightmare. I think a lot of insurance companies, I'm speculating people. So if you send me hate mail, whatever, but I think a lot of insurance, a lot of insurance companies out there, they want to make it difficult. And hopefully that you'll just throw your hands up in the air and give up.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine if I was relying on that vehicle for my like full-time job or we had to commute to work and stuff like, You know, those kinds of people in those situations have no choice but to just take those offers from the insurance company. Right.

Lee: Right. No, I, I totally agree. And I think that's unfortunately that's how that sometimes happens. So you got the new truck. I did see a picture of it. It's looking a little bare right now. Well, yeah. Yeah. You got that big V8 in that thing, don't you?

Eric: Mm hmm. Yeah. V8 35s.

Lee: on the new Toyota tires. Keep up, Jason. Come on, man. What are you doing back there on that little six banger out that thing? You're going to be running circles around him now.

Eric: It's a buggy.

Jason: Well, I think that's something that we, that's something that, you know, we talked about quite a bit when Eric was, uh, I guess he had kind of his, you know, mindset on a full size truck and maybe you could comment on, that a little bit, Eric, and why you made your decision to do that. Because from the from the guide perspective of it, you know, we were looking at, you know, I'm looking at how many times how many times you got to back up to make a turn, how wide the trail is, which can be very narrow at times. But go ahead and talk to that piece of it. Like, why did you choose a full size truck after having your Tacoma for so many years?

Eric: Yeah, we use the Tacoma to travel quite a bit. My wife and I went to, we did a road trip to Colorado multiple times because that's where her family is. We took it to California one time, which is where my family is. we spent a lot of time in there with our two dogs. And when you're when you have two full grown adults and dogs in the back trying to go to sleep and getting ready for bed and zero degree weather outside, it's just not the most comfortable. Like it's like getting dressed in a tiny little phone booth with two people. So we wanted a little bit more space. You know, we might be growing our family over the next couple of years. So we need to be able to carry all the stuff that comes along with another game as well. Yeah, so that was kind of why we wanted to go full-size. But at the same time, the full-size trucks that are the HD trucks are just too much for what we needed at this point in our life. So the second-gen Tundra seemed like the right size. It's like a 7.8-size full-size truck. And I mean, the backseat is enormous in the CrewMax. The doors are like three and a half feet wide, four feet wide. And then we put a seat delete in the back there. So plenty of space for our family travels. And she really wanted to build this thing together. Like I built the Tacoma, or most of the Tacoma myself, and it really felt more like my truck than it did our truck. So that's kind of what spurned the, the thought behind the series here, which is, you know, she and I building this truck together and me teaching her how to, you know, use tools and get familiar with the different systems that we're going to be installing in it.

Lee: That's pretty awesome that she's, you know, wanting to be, you know, that much involved in it.

Eric: Yeah, I feel super lucky, man. My wife is like, I don't really care.

Lee: You know, I come home from, you know, being gone a month or two and I'm home about 48 hours. And she's like, so when are you leaving it again? You got a podcast tonight. That's how we have a good marriage is, uh, I don't play around like the other day. I, uh, we, we have a rule now. I don't know about you fellows in your relationships, but we have a rule about spending money that there's a cap and anything above that cap, you're supposed to have a conversation with. So I can't go, you know, I mean, I've had like four or five new vehicles in the last. Five years or four years or whatever. And I didn't buy a vehicle, but I bought a new laser engraver, big, this big laser engraver machine. And I walked in the kitchen. I was like, Hey, I broke the rule. She's like, what? And I said, well, I bought a laser engraver for you. And she goes for me, sure you did. I had to tell her how much it was and then I was going to sleep on the couch, but I didn't. So yeah, it's good that your wife's involved in that. I think that's really cool. And it also helped that if there's ever some time that something happens with you on the trail, she's going to have a great knowledge of how everything works and how everything is. So like if you were to hurt your foot and you couldn't do a lot, She's gonna be able to know, you know, where everything's at and how to use it. So that's good.

Eric: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she's, uh, She's been really impressing me, honestly, like, uh, just learning how to use the tools and everything before she was very hesitant. She didn't want to mess anything up. And now she's not afraid of, you know, drilling holes in the truck. Like she helped me install the snorkel. We cut up, you know, big hole in the side of the fender. Um, and so I think that got her used to it pretty, pretty easily.

Lee: Is that as intimidating as everybody tells me it is.

Jason: The drill that hole, as long as you trust yourself.

Lee: Everybody I've ever talked to this, done it on their own and said it was the most intimidating, scary thing that they've done so far to their rig. Was that massive hole in it? Because there's not really any coming back from it. If you get it wrong, Jason, if you always buy another fender.

Jason: Well, I guess there is that option and yeah, you can paint it and go through that process, but… It's reported to you in terms of, say, somebody in the parking lot just drilled a big hole in the side of my truck. So back looping it full circle here. But yeah, I mean, it's, you know, Eric's build has been interesting to watch from my perspective, because what's unique, like you said, about this series is that He's he's filming it. You know, they're working in the driveway. They're going to be spending some time up to four wheel drive getting this mod cap cabin right for the back of the truck. We can talk about that a little bit later. But The fun thing for me is to watch Eric learn how to edit and kind of guide him through that process. And, you know, he's starting green. He's quick to pick up on technology. He was a quick study on the camera when we brought him on the team. And he wanted to accept this challenge of editing in his own series, right? And putting in the work. You know, we work with, while I'm handling kind of some of the business stuff and some of the sponsor arrangements and things like that. And, you know, the planning, this is all shipping to him, he's installing it, he's filming it, he's editing it. And the first the first episode that he edited, he sent it to me once I did one revision, send it back to him. And the second review, was like there was only just a handful of things that we needed to change. So, um, it's pretty spectacular. I think it's going to be a lot of fun for people to watch because it's relatable. Um, you know, it's approachable step-by-step. It's like you said, it's watching somebody who doesn't make me feel comfortable, but wants to learn how. Right. So we're trying to hit it from that perspective and saying, look at this thing that we installed over truck. We're like, we're going to show you how to do it. We don't know how to do it. Type of stuff. Um, so. We're really excited about that piece of it. And it's been a lot of fun to see the smiles and the laughs and the little jokes and things like that. I haven't seen any fights break out yet. I don't know if there will be any. That's happened off camera. Oh, you got to film this.

Lee: I was going to ask the question, are you including, not necessarily, I won't say bloopers, but if you make a mistake and it's a real life, you know, like, use the wrong bolt or I don't know, whatever you want to go. Are you including those kind of real life, uh, you know, scenarios or situations into the video and making it so that people, I mean, I personally think that people relate with that stuff.

Eric: Yeah, we, I mean, we better, uh, like I would say the only real mistake that we did that we will probably end up including in this, this next episode is that I just tapped into the wrong fuse. like for the actual panel. But like, you know, Rach struggles with the torque wrench sometimes or, you know, we might be missing pieces that we now need to take our third trip to advance auto for the day. Like that is all for sure a fair game to include in the series because that is the real stuff to your point, right?

Lee: Yeah. Yeah. And I think people relate to that kind of stuff. I mean, I know when I watch How-to videos or things that, you know, are doing people who are doing builds. It's always nice to see that humble side of them. Everything's just not glossed over and perfect that there are things that, you know, you stumble with or, and you can overcome them, you know, that's even better when you find it. So that's good that you're including those.

Eric: Yeah, it'll feel pretty authentic, I would say, like that's been the most important part of this particular series to us.

Lee: How many episodes do we have? Of this build, how many episodes?

Eric: Yeah, we signed up for 10 episodes. Wow. I get the sense that we'll probably go over that. just considering how much stuff we're filming and, and how much stuff we have to do to the truck. Like we're going to do a custom cabinet build out for, for the interior. And that's a lot of content to put into one episode. Absolutely. We'll see. We'll see. But 10 are committed. Yeah.

Lee: So I'm looking forward to, uh, looking forward to seeing that. I can't wait.

Jason: Yeah. Lee's always saying we don't put enough content out. He's killing me. I don't know. I don't know what to do.

Lee: I just need more content. Dang. Even Chad and I were talking about that when I was up at his shop. I was like, you know, cause he was watching, he watches the 24 seven guys or whatever they are. And, and I'm like, no, I said, Jason and mouth state, they need to put out more content. Even if it's a short 15 minute, you know, little whatever, he's got to put out more content.

Jason: Short, short, 15 minutes. Oh, 15 minutes. Like 15 minutes is like three days worth of video.

Lee: Don't you like it when people like me say stuff like that? Knowing in the background how long it takes to get 15 minutes.

Jason: you know there's like you know weeks or so worth of you know video you got to go through and and so yeah 15 minutes takes three or four days to get i get it i don't i can i can honestly say though i mean all this time that we've spent like making all these videos uh editing all these videos over we're on our going into our 11th year doing it um I still absolutely love it. Um, and it's a lot of fun. And I think I love it because I know when, you know, to move the bar, whether it be up or down. Right. And I got a good sense of, you know, what my, if I know things are going to get busy this time of the year, because Eric's building a truck and now, you know, I'm going to be building a new camper. Then I need to say, okay, we've had a good run at a video a week. you know, for four or five months, we need to dial that back, or plan to dial that back to video every every other week, because we've got a lot of stuff that we're doing. Right. And, you know, we've been playing around with shorts a little bit. Since hammer down last year, we released that. We've been doing shorts every week, pretty regularly associating those shorts with you know, the upcoming episodes. Um, that's been a lot of fun, but that's an addition, an additional layer of editing. Right. So, um, you know, we have learned that there was a point in time where people are really drinking beer. You can tell. Oh yeah. It might've been my dinner or the beer. I've been slugging one or the other. Um, I thought I own it. At least I'm not drinking. Okay. Oh, audio quality must be really good right now. But yeah, that's, that's an additional layer of editing, editing, the shorts and stuff like that. So to have somebody like Eric kind of step in, you know, kind of own this job. Yeah. You know, put in the time for it, you know, we're equally putting in time associated with making sure everything kind of comes together is pretty fantastic. One thing you will see in this series is how good Eric is at walking people through things, right? So that that's not just in the video for video sakes, like that's He's, you know, showing Rachel like what it does, what it means. He has the patience to answer those questions that may seem obvious for most people. So, um, it's really, it's, it's good. I, I feel really good about it. But one thing I was going to say is that, you know, there was a point in time and all of these videos that we made year to year and year where people had kind of a short attention span, you know, on YouTube, we were making 30 minute videos or more, um, you know, and then less people, people were watching less of it and we brought it down to kind of a 15 minute mark and people started watching those. But now it's gone back up and you know, where long form is, is kind of key again, right? Cause there's so much short form content out there. You know, those shorts are giving people an opportunity to click through and then watch the full video. Um, so So yeah, we're hoping that this series is like 10, 15 minutes a piece, aiming for 15 minutes or more. But it's just a matter. We may take an episode that's a little bit short and put it with another one. But the plan was to have a video for each kind of element of the install, one being like trail armor, one being electronics, the snorkel, radio for electronics too, the mod cap. cabin from Alucab. That'll be a dedicated show there. Showing people actually what it takes to put it together and assemble it. Because it's not the same thing as what the canopy camper or the Alucab cabin was. It does look the same, but it's in pieces, right? I think people were really going to get into seeing that whole complete piece of it because the builds have always done pretty well on the channel. Um, but builds are the most expensive production that you could possibly imagine, right? Like we're talking about a new truck and all new equipment, like, or you're talking about a used truck and, and the time it takes to build all of the equipment that you may be putting on it. So, um, Yeah, it's, it's pretty exciting. I'm excited to see this all kind of come together.

Lee: Um, Eric, I got to, okay. So here's the question for you. Out of everything you have planned for this build, is there one particular thing that's just completely out of the ordinary, something that most people wouldn't think to You know, either add to their truck or it's over the top. You know what I mean? It's like not necessary, but there's a cool factor involved. I mean, you have anything, you know, I mean, we all put bumpers and skids and sliders and we put, you know, the shower and all that kind of stuff, but is there anything different you need?

Eric: My brain immediately went to the, uh, no, I, I, I think that's, that's part of the custom interior build, right? Like, I think there's so many options out there or just a few options that you can buy out of the box that get installed in these things. And, um, they're great for sure, but like, I want to build it in such a way that it's insulated properly, right? In the same way that you might insulate a van build kind of thing. I want to make sure that like This is our family adventure rig as well as the guide vehicle, right? So if we're traveling over Christmas and in Colorado and it's negative 15 overnight, right? Like in the Tacoma, the towels that our dogs were laying on were literally frozen to the floor. Like we can't have that, you know? Um, so I'll probably use like pink foam insulation and really spend a lot of like time and care and craft in that part of the build. in a way that I haven't really seen with a lot of wedge camper builds. Like I'm actually kind of doing insulation properly and making it a true four season, season camper. So we probably won't go with the fireplace this time. I've been looking into other alternatives that might support this vision a little bit better. So yeah, we'll just, we'll just have to see, but I would say that's what we're going to do differently is is really put the time and care into making it a comfortable, yeah, comfortable interior.

Lee: So just to be clear, you're building the interior or are you working with somebody else that's building the interior? So you're gonna, I mean you're, okay.

Eric: Yeah, I mean I have, I have 25 four-foot sections of extruded aluminum and it chops out with a metal blade and you know, like where we're doing the thing. We're not even like pre-fabbing or pre-ordering anything that's pre-cut and pre-topped.

Lee: We're going to do all that ourselves. I can't wait to see that because I think that's something that when I got the AluCab, I wanted to do the interior and I kept thinking to myself, there's just not anything unique and different, you know, about and no offense to, you know, those who I'm about to say, but everybody's got goose gear. You know what I mean? And I think they make a fantastic product. They're so innovative. But I just wanted to see something different. And if you're in some of the IUCAB groups on Facebook, there's a few of these people overseas that are making some custom interiors in these things that are just I mean, they're jaw-dropping, just the time and what they've put into them and that skill level. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm excited to see what you come up with that. And as far as the heater goes, most people that I've talked to, you know, the heater does okay, but there's a certain point where it just, it ain't cutting the bill to keep you warm and toasty warm. Now, I don't know that for sure, because I don't have one, but I like it.

Eric: It does a great job. And like, I mean, the ambience of having a fireplace in your, in your truck is like unmatched. So just for that factor, it's like, it's pretty, but if we're in, you know, yeah, negative 10 degree weather in Colorado, like it's not gonna do very much, right. And it might bring it up to zero degrees or something like that. Um, But at that point you need to insulate the doors, you need to insulate behind the water tank, the floor, right? So it's not just enough to put a bed in there and put all your stuff in there. Like there's a lot more work that I think we're going to do.

Lee: I got bougie and bought a water tank heater mat and put it on the floor and put carpet over it, you know? It's not a bad idea.

Jason: Actually. Yeah.

Lee: Let me tell you right now that is nice.

Jason: I mean, so like, like an RV water tank here, Matt.

Lee: Absolutely. Yeah. Cause they're 12 volt there. And you know, they pull, I don't remember the amps now, but they pull a little bit of amps getting warmed up. But once they get warmed up, it's not, it's, they're not that big of a draw. But what I did was I took. a piece of carpet, and then I put a thick rubber, felt-rubber combination backing on it. And then from there, when I did that, I only sealed the edges around it, and then I slid the tank heater inside the pocket so that I had the rubber and felt to protect the bottom, and I had the carpet up on the top. And uh, I gotta tell you it works. It works great. The only problem I have is I need to get more power in it You know, I only have one battery in there right now so by the time I run that and the diesel heater and some lights and And of course starlink just guzzles the juice, you know, so I gotta have it but it does work I'll tell you what's really nice I have it hooked to a Garmin, the Garmin switch pod thing or whatever they call it. And in the mornings, I have laid up there and turned it on from my bed, you know, because you have the app on your phone. And by the time I climb down and step on it, my feet are stepping on a warm carpet. I gotta say it's kind of nice.

Eric: I'd say that's a pretty over the top.

Lee: It doesn't do anything for heating the environment per se. It really doesn't. But I got to tell you, when you get down in the middle of night and you got to go to the bathroom or one thing or another and it's warm down there, it does make a difference.

Eric: So yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, we keep our towels from freezing to the to the floor of the camper. That's for sure.

Lee: Yeah. Yeah. And if the dogs down there, they get to lay on it and enjoy that, you know, but but anyway, so no, that's that's pretty cool. I can't wait to see this stuff.

Eric: So we'll see. We'll see.

Lee: We'll see how it goes. Let's talk about Jason here for a minute. Now, Jason sent me a picture of his Tacoma and she's naked.

Jason: Yeah. It's really fun to drive. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, we, we've got, uh, Deaver Leafs on the back, uh, stage three Deavers on the back. And one of the things I was concerned about, uh, taking the canopy camper off was what the ride quality was going to be like. And what's unique about the Deaver Leafs is there. There's a, there's more springs in the pack. and they're thinner, right? So you get, you know, a more comfortable ride than you would be getting out of a few reliefs that are thicker, right? So it definitely brought the back end of the truck up. But it wasn't by far unbearable, like maybe a heavy LME spring or Dakar spring would feel like after you took the weight out of the back of a truck. So, you know, that coupled with It's already regeared and then we've overland Taylor tuning is to in the truck and then did an update on the truck to I mean. It's a buggy right now. And we just did a trip in Southern West Virginia, our first guided trip for the year. And it was a lot of fun. We had, I think it was the most fun about it was I knew the truck was going to be fun to drive and all of the obstacles that we negotiated, they were really easy. You know, even easier without all the weight on the back of the truck. What was interesting about it is removing the camper and then thinking through, how am I going to get this stuff, you know, in a position where I can access it easily if guests need it. Um, so kind of having to rethink, you know, my, my packing and rethink what I'm actually bringing. Do I need this or not? Um, it got me out of my kind of normal zone. It got me out of my comfort zone and it was able to think through like, Okay, how could we do this to make it easier and then thinking through that and then going on the trip and then opening and closing all of the boxes and moving things around day to day to day, night to night, morning to morning. Wants me to, you know, pare down my kid even more. Right. So that's been the really fun part of it aside from, you know, driving the truck, you know, kind of in the nude. But, uh, So yeah, like I said, here in the beginning, we had no plans to do anything. With the Tacoma, we knew that the mod cap was coming out for the midsize and full size trucks, we knew that several more several months before the launch. But it wasn't, I had in my mindset that I wasn't going to do something until I sold the truck one day, because it works the way it is. It's, it's fine. But then then there's obviously, you know, when you're in this space, and you're working in this space, and you see something new coming out that you really want to test. And it kind of gets you thinking a little bit. So watching Eric go through the process, getting his parts figured out, filming, and stuff like that. I was up in New York, with the guys that get four-wheel drive now you cab USA and Was telling them, you know, we're looking at getting a 2025 Tacoma You know when those are available and they put this mod cap on there and they said well, why don't you just sell your camper and buy a mod cap now and I didn't know what to say. I was just like I Why not? You know, why not? Why not sell the camper? If I can sell it, and then we'll get the mod cap when they first hit land here in the US, we'll build it, we'll share that experience from a, you know, I've upgraded to the new Kennedy camper to or what's called the mod cap. And then we'll show people what that's like, what it's like to actually take it off of the truck, how involved or how not involved, it really is if you have the comforts of your garage to do it, or maybe just do it on your driveway instead of a car dealership parking lot with a forklift. So how approachable is it? How approachable is it to do just by yourself? Yeah, exactly. Eric was in a time crunch. He had people come and help him. There was a there was a piece of heavy equipment there to lift it up, you know, all of these pieces. But, you know, for anybody to think through taking this thing off by themselves with all of the butyl, if they seek a flexed it to seal it in and stuff like that, doing that yourself is kind of almost unachievable unless you have the right tools. So. We used, we used jack stands and got everything hooked up. We used the putty knife on the butyl to kind of lift it up off the cap or lift it up off the caps of the bed. And just piece by piece, turn by turn and was able to take the whole thing off, you know, by myself in one evening, right. So I wouldn't want to recommend that anybody does that every season, like every winter season taking the camper off. I mean, I think, you know, when we talk about the canopy camper, we talk about the mod cap. I refer to it as kind of a semi-permanent installation because you put it on there because you want to use it. You want to go camping, right? You know if you want a camper that you can take out in 15 minutes, you get a kayak camper or you get, you know, four wheel camper or you get something else. Right. So, Um, but I think it will help people to see what it takes to go through that process and understand why, you know, we're upgrading to this new solution. I mean, we had, um, goose gear in the canopy camper. I got the fireplace, just about every accessory that you could imagine. Um, we were exploring or experimenting with like insulation. Uh, we had a bed rug. behind the goose gear, stuff like that. And to be able to pull the whole system apart and then look at the state of some of the equipment, to know how ineffective the bed rug really is, but how little effective it actually, or how effective it can be, right? So it's still gonna be cold in the bottom, but you're taking the edge off a little bit, right? So I think Eric's right on this is like, it's a chance to rebuild knowing what you know now, to put into a new application and maybe address some of those finer details a little bit more methodical, paying attention to how well we still seal it up. How well we insulate the bed because the bed of, you know, the Tacoma is a composite bed, you know, so I mean, just, you know, cold and temperatures are just transferring directly right through it. So that's another reason why we made that decision is because I want to see what I can do in this 2020 Tacoma so that when I get to 25, I can lift it off and do it and have it done the right way. So our, our, our, uh, mod caps are on the water. Um, the interesting thing about the mod cap is that it's modular. We've talked about this a couple of times on our trips around the campfire is that what it does is it gives people an opportunity at a lower price point to get the base foundation, um, which is, is the mod cap base and maybe just put a flat top on it for now. And then maybe next year or two years down the road, when they're ready for the investment, they can add a tent top to it. And then they could offload that flat top, that delete top, right? So I think it's going to create some opportunity for some of these accessories to kind of move around, you know, in the market a little bit as people decide that they want this or want that. Also really exciting for the mod cap and we can kind of announce this on your podcast is there's going to be a four sleep option for the top. What? Yeah, so there's going to be. You can't really comment exactly how it works, but there's going to be a four sleep option on the top and it'll be available at Overland Expo to see. I think Asheville Vehicle Outfitters is going to have one. Tiny Rig is going to have one. And then okay four-wheel drive is gonna have their Tundra.

Lee: So they're gonna be a full-size mod cap and two midsize mod caps So you're gonna be able to see what some of these different options, you know look like But but yeah, the force the go ahead just to be clear the for Sleep wolf will be an option for the midsize and the full-size versions. I Yeah, so what's what I just want to make sure about.

Jason: Yeah, so even with the cabin, even with the full size and mid size canopy camper, you know, version one that we have right now on market. The unique thing about both of those campers is that the top is exactly the same. So the tent top is the same on the mid-size and the full-size. The mod cap is designed the same way. You're going to have a wider base and probably a longer base option for your bigger vehicles, your bigger full-size vehicles, but the tent top will fit. The two-sleep and the four-sleep tent tops will fit the entire range. That's what's really cool because you're not just you're not just talking about, you know, a modular camper unit that's available for the Toyota Tacoma. You're talking about a modular top that's available for all applications of vehicle that the canopy campers or the cabins, you know, the full size, the midsize, you've got all of those options apply to all of those base units.

Lee: Wow. That's a lot to digest. I mean, As you're talking about this, I'm trying to in my head envision how you're going to do the four sleep. So I'll be honest, uh, when we camp this weekend, we're going for the, you know, the solar eclipse thing. And it's going to be me, my wife and my nine-year-old daughter and two dogs up at the top of that thing. And because a lot of people, yeah, I mean, we've done it with one dog, but we're going to add one more and thankfully it's tiny. But, uh, yeah, even, even my wife is like, you know, if they made one of these things that had some more room in it, we may have to have one. So maybe putting up a camper for sale. Yeah, I really that's just that's super exciting. Another thing about those that I've noticed in the pictures and you guys can speak to this a little bit more is it looks like there's more T slot panels around the perimeter so that you can affix things using the T slots on it like. You know, I don't know, whatever you can mount around it, but it looks like there's more, especially around the top of the perimeter. Is that, am I seeing that correctly?

Jason: Yeah, you are. In fact, there's going to be several new accessories available for these units coming to you from Alucab as well. We can't speak to exactly what those are right now, but there are a list of different accessories that they're going to make available for the modcap. What's also cool is that all of the existing accessories that are available from like GP Factor and from Alucab will work on the modcap as well. So if you wanted to say sell your canopy camper and take some of those accessories off, you can go and you can apply those to these modcaps as well. There was some thought put into that. You know, there's there's solar ready plug up on top that you can tap into to bring solar into the vehicle. So that all the wirings run through the tent and down to the bottom where you know your electrical boards and stuff like that will be. You've got an option now where you can add windows to the side. or stick with kind of a deleted side, you know, side windows. The overall look of it is a little more sleek. So it's formed aluminum, and that carries some strength with it as well, not just appearance. So if you maybe felt like, you know, a window or was a little flimsy or something like that over time, you know, you can expect to have a sturdier wind or with these mod caps. So, um, yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot of wins with this. I think it's gonna, um, I think it's going to give people, um, more opportunity, like I said, to get into this lifestyle, maybe with a camper that they can't camp in right away, but then they can camp in, you know, down the road. Um, Goose gears also got some new stuff coming this year, which we're pretty excited about as well. So, um, lots of good things happening. So I didn't want to sit around and wait until 2025 after being motivated by Eric, watching him and his wife build his truck. So we put the campy canopy camper up on, uh, on Instagram. We sold it in three hours. So, um, We're ready to go. Can you put mine up there for me, please? Depends what the price is.

Lee: So no welds or very little welds.

Jason: I think there's going to be welds on it. I haven't actually touched the base of it yet, but you know, looking at some of the diagram and some of the pictures there, there have been some pictures that we just released this week. Yeah, throughout UCAB USA. So you can get some close ups. There's going to be more digital assets available here in the next week or so.

Lee: I like the fact that you can bolt it, you're going to put this together. For Alucab, logistically speaking, this means it's easier to get more of them over in that container at one time than it has been in the past. So that's a huge benefit because then availability becomes easier for the dealer network to have the product because now they're able to put more of them in the container. And I like the idea of actually, you know, I've never had any problems with mine, but inherently aluminum being welded, if it's just not done perfectly, there can be stress cracks and welds. Now, Allucab's got that down to a pack because I've never seen one that had a crack in it. I will say that, you know, if you, if they're using a break and they're bending this stuff and forming it and then bolting it together, uh, yeah, there's going to be some added strength and, and, you know, rigidness to it. So that's going to be nice.

Eric: Yeah. The installation instructions. Sorry. Go ahead.

Jason: No, you're good. Go.

Eric: The installation instructions are posted on Alucab's website. And so you can take a look at how it all fits together, but there's basically going to be a rubber kind of a set of rubber gaskets that seal between the cap and the tent or the kind of delete option as well. So I would envision that as you bolt these things together and you have this rubber gasket, like it'll handle the vibrations better as we're going down the roads and Yeah, I'm excited for these improvements.

Lee: Talk to me about weight. Is there a difference? Same weight. About the same weight?

Jason: Yeah, I don't think we picked up on any weight savings or any gains on that. It's right around the same weight. Um, price point is going to be near the same too. Um, I think you'll still be able to, uh, for a limited time, you'll still be able to order the original canopy camper as well. Um, it'd be a special order only. I don't think we'll be stocking them. Um, you'd have to talk to that. You can have USA guys to know that for sure. But I do know that it would be a special order only item. Um, but, uh, Yeah, it's pretty exciting, you know, to see. I think they're taking a lot of value in the feedback that has been offered through their community forums and just paying attention to social media and their users ambassadors and stuff like that. So pretty exciting stuff. But Yeah, I kind of anxious to see what's going to happen with the new Tacoma. And hopefully it'll be all fixed, figured out by 2025. I don't think there's enough of them really in circulation yet to be uncovering any problems yet. But yeah, if not, we'll just hold on to the 2020 a bit longer.

Lee: Have you watched the TFL video?

Jason: Where they broke the axle? Yeah.

Lee: Yeah, that was a little bit of like, Oh, man. No, don't do that. Yeah You know, geez, I don't know, you know, everybody starts posting it's it's like this with everything you get something new you always have the naysayers and you always have the haters and then you got the people who are just they're completely fans of it and And then you got the guys are like, you know what? I'm just gonna I like this but I'm just gonna hold off and let the first one get through and And then I want to buy enough, you know I'll buy the second year and I'm that guy cuz like for the Nissan I didn't buy the first year of the new third gen. I bought the second year and knock on wood I haven't had any problems with it, but I think that Tacoma looks fantastic and I don't know if you guys know Tyler from independence overland, but he's gonna build one and I think he's gonna Has said he's gonna put another out you can't I think he's put an audio cab on it

Jason: So anyway, yeah, do you miss your you miss your Colorado?

Lee: I do I there are times that I You know regret trading it in and selling it, but I have I Have to find some way of overcoming 50,000 mile fear so when I hit 50,000 miles, I'm like It's time to find some mail It might be a Toyota. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, honestly, I think my next one, if, if I do another one, I'm going to go, I'm probably going to go full size. Uh, I don't do, I mean, you know, we have tight trails here in Arkansas and Oklahoma and, and you guys have some tight trails out there where you're at, you know, and, But I just don't do a lot of it. I'm willing to take it down some of those trails here once in a while. And I might put a couple of some pinstripes on or whatever, but for the most part, I've, I don't do real hard, hard, you know, trails and technical overly technical stuff. Mostly because I've in the past always had a, you know, a camper behind me, like the Opus or something, but.

Jason: I think that's Eric's mindset too with his truck is that, you know, there are going to be limited times where he's going to be. on trails, but the majority of time that he's going to be, you know, spending living out of this truck, um, and taking his family on, you know, extended adventures, you know, working remotely or whatever it may be is that he, you know, that, that 85% of the time he's going to, you know, be more comfortable, you know? So I think there's, there's definitely value in that thought process. I had thought about, you know, doing a six foot bed Tacoma just to give me that extra, that little bit extra space. Um, but I still look at it. It looks like a trail limo, you know, it's just too long. Yeah. So I bet you make a good point to Lee. Yeah. You make a good point to Lee. I mean, you know, that I would call that slover, slover landing. Right. So we're, we're just, you know, we're not in a hurry to get anywhere. We want to get there comfortably. Um, I drove the, uh, okay. Um, tradesmen are 2,500 tradesmen. Um, actually it's a 3,500 tradesmen and their Dodge they have with the flatbed camper on it. And I had that for 30 days last winter. And, uh, I mean, it was just something else. I was like, Oh my gosh. Yeah. It'll make you soft real quick. Yeah. Um, And, you know, the attention to detail with those units, the comfort, you know, forced air heat, you know.

Lee: Did you have the heated and cooled seats, like the air conditioned seats in it?

Jason: Oh, in the truck? No. Yeah. In the truck. In the truck, I think it might have heated seats. I never needed it. But just the camper itself was like, Um, just fantastic. And I think, yeah, it's, it's a price point that takes a little bit of time to swallow. Um, you know, when you're, when you're buying a three quarter ton or one ton truck and putting a, you know, 60, 70, $80,000 camper on it, plus a $15,000 flatbed, that's a, that's a pill to swallow. But, um, you know, the reward is, is the package, you know, when you get there. Yeah.

Lee: Yeah, I got a buddy of mine's got one of those new, it's got a 3,500 and it's got the air conditioned seats in it. And, uh, on a hot summer day, turn those things on. And I'm telling you, if you're in a good pair of shorts, you go places that you did not think you're going to go back up, man. That's so good. But, uh, yeah, the, uh, back to the Alucab, the new one. Uh, I don't, I think this question was asking one of the forum groups, but I, and so I'll ask it just to make sure if you just get the base, the box that, that you start with, can you attach just a traditional rooftop wedge tent to the top of that thing?

Jason: I, I would be, I don't know for a fact yet, but the, I believe the delete top, um, if you look at maybe some of the three year renderings that might be available for the, um, for the delete top, there are tracks on top of it. So it will accommodate a, um, like bars, traditional load bars. Um, you can get, uh, with that being said, then you could do, you could probably do a really low profile foot. and then put a and then put a 10 on top of it as well. Obviously wouldn't be passed through. Right. Unless you heavily modified it. Yeah, I think this this could get people really creative. I mean, people have gotten so creative. You know, with all of those wedge campers that are on the market. You know, there's there's Alucab I feel like has done it really well by having all of the T-track or all of the extrusions where you can bolt things in. Super Pacific is another one that's done really well with making their tubing, their tubular frames and stuff like that. Very welcoming to add accessories with nutserts all over the place or rivnuts all over the place. So yeah, I think that you might see people getting these delete tops and like, heavily modifying or potentially cutting through the ceiling to mount something up to it. You might see people getting a six foot bed Tacoma putting this thing on there, you know, and then putting a max air fan on top of it and just stealth sleeping out the back of it. So it's going to be pretty interesting to see what people kind of innovate and they create, you know, from these products.

Lee: Yeah, I agree. I envisioned… You know, people get in the box, their traditional rooftop tent on there that they already have probably as kind of the gateway for them. So, you know, now you've, I like it. It's appealing to me to have the box back there, even without the tent on it. If you have a trailer or something like that, because it adds and affords you so much more storage space, so much more area to do things with to carry a little extra gear that you wouldn't normally carry. Um, so I. I can't wait to see what some people do with it because I know a guy that took a wedge tent and cut a hole in a Nissan Xterra and a hole in the bottom of the wedge tent and buried the three together. You probably know who I'm talking about.

Jason: I do.

Lee: I can't remember their Instagram now, but yeah, it's Enoch. And, you know, so there are some really super creative people and I love to see that kind of stuff. So I think this is the perfect platform to catapult a lot of people into something that they, you know, something really different and unique. And I'm looking forward to it.

Eric: And what we see on our guided trips too is you know, a lot of people who are just starting into this hobby, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it. They get a canopy, and then they put a tent on top of that canopy, and then they go to Expo and see the campers, and they're like, I want a camper. So now they sell their canopy, their brand new canopy, their brand new tent, you know, and get into a wedge camper. And you know, the mod cap will allow that person to go through that journey without the additional expense.

Lee: Yeah. A little more. Yeah. Uh, tell me about fit kits. Will you use the existing ones?

Jason: Uh, no, I, so there's, there are fit kits. So the fit kits are actually for, um, the vehicle and for the top that you get. So if you buy a Tacoma fit kit, you can see that probably if we were to look on the OK4WheelDrive website, they're getting the filler kit for the Tacoma. So the filler kit is going to be different. And it's also going to include the parts that you need for the tent as well. So, there's fit kits available for a Nissan Frontier. There's fit kits available for the Tacoma, the Gladiator, the Ranger, and the Colorado.

Lee: Do you like how he tossed that in there? Well, what about the second gen Nissan Frontiers? This opens up a little bit of a, you know, an opportunity.

Jason: Well, this is 2022 and up Frontier.

Lee: Okay. That's the third gen. Okay.

Jason: So second gen, I don't know. All they have on the Audi cab global site is a 22 Frontier five and a half foot bed.

Lee: Okay. Well, I guess somehow or another, I got to figure out how to sell my, uh, my canopy camper. So if anybody listening to this or watching this needs a canopy camper, that'll fit a, uh, uh, four foot, four and a half, five foot, whatever it is, bad. The standard one, um, hit me up because Jason probably just told me on the new box here. Well,

Jason: Yeah, and I'm looking to go back to what we were talking about earlier, I'm looking at the top of the what's called the mod cap canopy, which is the flat top. Yeah, yeah. And it does, it does have similar tracks to what's on top of the canopy camper currently, so you'll be able to put load bars on top.

Lee: So yeah, I mean, technically speaking, you know, Eric's right, you could, you could put that You know, uh, can't you already have on top of this instead of buying a fiberglass topper or, uh, nothing against, you know, some of the other brands out there, they're all great, but this is going to be taller. It's going to give you more space, but it also gives you the option to just add on. And ultimately end up with something that you couldn't do with a regular cat top, you know, for a truck. So it's going to be fun.

Eric: If you get the two sleeper and then you realize that your family growing or your wife wants more space than you swap the two sleeper out for the four sleeper, right?

Lee: Yeah. I really like, uh, Jason just sent me a, uh, a picture, but, uh, I really think this thing look, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it. It doesn't look like it's slanted as much as the canopy is. It looks like it's a little more squared. But I really liked the way they did the top on that thing. I really liked the way they've done it.

Jason: Yeah. They carry that design obviously from the three R tent. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I think it's gonna, it's gonna work well with, uh, fixed mount solar panels, probably better than, you know, something like a Sunflare panel. So, you know, red arc panels mounted in between, uh, how you have load bars. I think that's going to work really well.

Lee: So back door looks like it's pretty much the same at the other. I mean the same latching mechanism and the same, uh, system and then the fit kits, you know, I mean, that's great that they've already got that many fit kits, you know, for it to get. To launch it with.

Jason: So, yeah, I think there's some upgrades to the, uh, the hinging mechanism or the slide mechanism that holds the door. Um, from opening, um, I think the latching mechanism will probably end up being similar to the same as what it was before.

Eric: Um, I like the latches on the tents too. Right.

Jason: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Upgraded the latches, um, on the tents or the tops as well. Um, and yeah, I like, I like the option of having the windows from the factory too. Um, there's definitely an expense with installing the windows. you know, aftermarket on the, you know, camping, the camper version one, the current one that's out. So to be able to have that done at the factory, there's some value to that. So Eric's going to go with a non-window model, probably for the installation piece, like we were talking about before.

Eric: Yeah. And to put like my axe and ice scraper and, you know, all the stuff that I had basically on my Tacoma wind door.

Lee: So when are we all going to go to Alaska?

Jason: I think the question is, when are we going to have you on one of our trips? I think for getting us on this podcast here so quick, I think we owe you a trip in West Virginia with Mountain State Everglades.

Lee: You know what, you don't owe me a trip, but I would love to come hang with you guys. And when I get, um, I got a few things to get finished in the truck and must somehow or another miraculously, one of you cats can help me sell this thing and I'll just, I'll start over again. I got some mods going on in mind right now that are just, they're going to blow your mind. I mean, yeah, I'll tell you about them after the show. Cause I don't want to let them out yet. But I'd love to come with you and actually do the show on the trail with you. And I'm working on some Midland stuff right now. You noticed they launched today the new helmet mics, the Bluetooth. Did you see that? Saw those. Yeah. Yeah. So. Lee's gonna see if he can't work a little magic with that into riding on a trail with not necessarily a motor, you know, a bike, but modify one of those to use in a vehicle. I was going to say, if you wear a helmet driving your truck around, it might look a little funny, but no, I'm going to get some and modify them up so that, uh, you know, you can clip them on your seatbelt or something like that. Yeah.

Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get you let's get you on a trip. And let's do that. I think it'd be a lot of fun. I think you'd have a good time here. We certainly are having a lot of fun with these guided trips. So

Lee: Jason, I love it up y'all's neck of the woods. You know, I'm, I've actively been trying to buy land up there somewhere, just find the right piece. Uh, this year, uh, I'm going to do very little West coast stuff. Most everything events that I'll be doing are East coast and small, you know, the smaller, more, um, localized events. And, uh, I want to spend some time up in West Virginia looking for some land. There you go. We'll show you around. And trout fishing.

Jason: Yeah, there's plenty of that. So.

Lee: Yeah, no, I think so. Tell me, let's, let's switch gears for a minute before we, uh, uh, get too far. Tell me what some other things that are happening with mountain state. You've added some new crew members. Um, you know, I'm sure you, you're going to do some more of the tat this year on your way out to the expo. Uh, which section do you have to do next? And then tell us a little bit, all that kind of good stuff.

Jason: Well, so we, um, uh, last, uh, fall, we kind of, we knew that we needed to add to our team, um, you know, at least from the guide perspective side of it. Um, obviously, you know, including those guys on, you know, whoever those people would be and however many they would be including them on, you know, our trips and stuff that we do privately, um, not aside from our guided trips. Um, so we. Put together an application process, have people submit videos for it. Um, And we had like 30 applications. We had more than 30 come in. Wow. 30 of them qualified to be an acceptable application because they followed instructions. You know, they sent us a video, which is what we wanted. We wanted a video application and their resume. Some didn't do video. They just sent a resume. So by the time we kind of worked those applications through our internal team, which is John Robinson, Ben, Eric and myself, we came down to like, I think like seven or eight guys. And then the closer we approached our kind of guide challenge weekend, the plan was to put these guys through kind of a survivor type of competition. You know, Overland style. Thank you. Love it. And it was so fun. So it's out. It's out already. Yeah, the whole the two episodes, you're gonna have to watch that tonight. So we had a lot of fun with that. But by the time we got to by the time we got to that guy challenge weekend, um, we had a couple of people drop off. So we were down to five. Um, and we put these guys through a series of three different challenges. Um, we don't want to spoil it for anybody that might be listening. Just go watch the video. Um, you know, long story short, uh, there were two guys that won. We originally were planning on keeping, um, just those two guys out of the five and we loved them all so much that we decided to keep all five. So, um, all of them had, yeah, like Eric said, just fantastic. I mean, Eric and I spent a lot of time talking through the situations and we just, we just got so kind of attached to these guys from just spending one weekend with them that all of them had a very unique, you know, personality, skill sets that all complemented everything that we do. Those that lack maybe the four wheel drive experience or the camera experience. If they had the personality, like we knew we could teach them all the rest of the stuff. Oh, God. Attitude is all you need. And the attitude, right? The attitude was a big piece of it. So we We decided to keep all five of them after that series. So you can still go watch the series and see who won. It's a lot of fun. Um, then we did a guide challenge or a guide training weekend at Blue Ridge Overland Gear. Uh, we had Rodney, Rodney Doosan from, um, from Florida with Everland medic came and did CPR and basic first aid with the team. Um, Then we had Ted with Overland Experts do some recovery training with us. And we had a lot of fun, got to use equipment that I've never used before. We got to see how a pole pal works. We won't be carrying one with us, but it was still fun to see how it works. We set up three to one poles, two to one poles, one to one direct poles. Um, we talked about, uh, traction. Uh, we put the guys through some traction control training to learn how their vehicle, you know, how it, how it reacts and slips and where the breaking point is. Um, and then, uh, those five guys have to ride with Eric and I in our vehicle for at least one trip. And then they have to, um, guide with us in their vehicle on one trip before they'll qualify for. you know, going on our private trips with us, which is Hammer Down. And then hopefully by 2025, these guys will be in a position where they can guide a trip without us even being there, where Eric and I can maybe focus on, you know, some different areas and different dates. So, yeah, we'll be doing Hammer Down. We'll be at Overland Expo Mountain West. Right after we finish Amberdown, I'll be driving out early to meet with Goose Gear and to do a little bit of work at their shop for this mod cap build. And then Eric and Ben and I, and likely some of these new team members and potentially some other influencers that you've seen on Instagram, we'll be finishing out Colorado, landing in Utah. Um, and then we've got, uh, Overland Expo East that we'll be at and then, um, Adventure X Fest, uh, which is actually before Overland Expo East. But, uh, so yeah, I've got a, got a busy plate, two builds. It's the first time we've ever done two, two builds in one year. Um, and, uh, we've got five new guides and, uh, things are, things are turning here. So I'm having a really good time with it.

Lee: I think Kevin, I think you guys being able to build one mid-size and one full-size kind of along the same timeline, you know, that's going to be neat to see the differences in the two. What's really going to be neat is just to, again, go back to what we said earlier, is just see what people do with these things. Because, you know, there's some creative people out there.

Eric: There really is. One of our guides in training, he custom built a camper on the back of his power wagon, just contractors boxes and plywood and stuff. And he's been looking for a tent that he could cut the bottom off to put on top, right? And so, I mean, it's timely that Alucab's coming out with the tent with the empty bottom for the mod cap, right? Because maybe that's a solution to his problem. Um, yeah. Expecting is still a lot of creativity.

Lee: What, uh, yeah, really the, these five guys that you guys got coming on as, are there any unique, um, they're all unique. Yeah, I see Jason's over there just trying to hold it together like unique skill sets that you know That just stand out from the rest. I mean, I know they're all gonna be great guys because one You know that you guys have picked them. They'll be great guys You know everybody like being Vince like goofy, you know what I mean? He's got that that fun like I said 13 year old I

Eric: Yeah. I mean, they've all got amazing stories and amazing personalities. Just to tease some of them, and then Jason can jump in. But this guy Fitz, who came on our last trip, he's been a stay-at-home dad for the last four years, raising his small kids. And now he's ready to get back out there. And He's done all sorts of contracting work, really great with tools, really great with kids, and just has a great personality and a lot of enthusiasm. Casper is actually an actor and has been in probably some of the stuff that you've seen out there, but his personality and his ability to connect with other people is really what stood out to us. Dan just wrapped up a, I believe like 10, eight to 10 month solo trip across Canada, up to Alaska. So he's really done the thing, you know, like out of his truck with his dog and is also very talented, creative and filmed it and has a really great series out on YouTube.

Lee: Give him a shout out. Do you know his YouTube is?

Eric: Yeah, well, the series is called The Big Reset, but his his channel is just Dan Wynel.

Lee: Well, we need to make sure we give him a shout out so people can see.

Eric: Yeah, sounds good. And then we have James, who is on the cusp of retirement. And he drives a Jeep Rubicon that he's done pretty much everything you possibly could to it. And he's a guide at an off road park at chaos off road park. And then we have Paul, who has not only, you know, been a guest on a lot of our trips and going to be a really great friend, but he and his wife have created the radio chatter card game. Kind of love building community as well, right? So they're all very different and all have very big strengths.

Lee: Yeah, Paul and Bethany are great people. We had them on the, uh, we had them on the show not too long ago. And, and, uh, I had ordered some prior to them coming on and we, you know, we played a little bit while we were doing one of the episodes and they're just, they're just all, you know, they're great people. So I know that it sounds like to me, you guys have, have, uh, you know, brought together some great, great folks with great backgrounds. So that'll be exciting.

Jason: Yeah, we, I mean, Eric, I don't have anything to add to that one. It was perfect. I mean, like I said, all the applications came in and we felt this big stress on our, this big weight on our shoulders to like, you know, find the people. And then we thought through or pick the people we wanted to come and be in this challenge. And then we engineered a point system so that Eric and I wouldn't judge who the two people were. These guys would actually judge themselves and pick who wins, right. And it was kind of interesting to see how it all worked out. But, you know, long, long story short, the process picked all five of them. And they, we couldn't, we couldn't have shaved off and decided without putting, you know, these only five guys that ended up showing up out of the, you know, seven or eight that we originally picked, those five guys showed up. And those guys, those guys did it. So yeah, just really awesome. Really awesome. Josh.

Lee: Man, that is fantastic. Well, uh, you got anything else you want to add? We've, uh, we've managed to do about an hour and 25 minutes. So this has been an excellent episode. And once I edited it, it's going to get a little longer. Cause I'm going to throw some pictures in there and, uh, some other stuff for you guys. So we'll get that done, but anything else you want to chat about, you know, with, uh, mountain state or.

Jason: No, I just want to get you out on one of our trips. If we're, if we're booked up, I think we've only got two spots of like 35 left for the rest of the year, maybe three, but doesn't matter if you see one that's sold out, we'll we'll squeeze you in there. So look at look at a calendar online and pick one and get your get your butt over here and we'll take you on a trip.

Lee: I'd be honored. I'd love to go hang out with you guys and do one. I enjoy watching all that that you do. And and I talk quite often about you guys coming through and hanging out with me and how we had the perfect lake and the perfect sunset and a perfect sunset. I mean, that was the sunset for the for the books. And then, you know, you guys heading on out and getting a stop at the sand dunes, which I'm so glad that we had that. you know, that time so that I think you would have missed that had we not had that, you know, chance to visit.

Jason: And I can tell you talked us into going and we had both places. I mean, we have, yeah, we had, we had the whole place to ourselves. Like we have the whole beaver, um, State Park or whatever that little beaver State Park, right? We had the whole I think there was one or two side-by-sides Sitting on a dune way deep in there But there was zero people camped all of the campgrounds. There's like three campgrounds there There was no cars anywhere the facility looked like it was brand new like the the shower facility the campsites Um, yeah. So thank you for that. We had a lot of fun stuff stopping by the beaver liquor store as well. Um, that was an experience. But yeah, thanks for that.

Lee: Yeah, that was great. I could tell when I saw the look on Jason's face, he had that childish giddy kind of thing going, and you could tell he was in. And then, of course, Eric, you know, when you could tell when Jason, he, if anybody has watched Jason's videos, when he gets excited about something, he starts to stutter a little bit. Have you ever noticed that? Hey, Junior. He's having a good time, but yeah, you guys, I could tell y'all had a blast. I'm so glad I got to share that, that time with you and mother nature was good to us. And so that was excellent. Well, all right. Uh, I guess this will about wrap it up for us. Uh, Thanks again for, you know, both of you guys for hanging out with us and, and doing the podcast. I know it's not our normal thing where we were live and we have all the questions and maybe we could do one of those again soon. And since you guys are doing the bills and having, um, you know, the, the first, I guess you will have the new value caps. Maybe what we should do is let you guys get them and then come on and do a show with us live and. Jason and Eric, I'm sure you guys can get that posted on the Allucab USA page and it'll bring some folks in and let them ask you guys some questions. You know, your first initial thoughts of it when you got it, you know, the whole nine yards. I think that would be- The install process. Yeah. Yeah. I think it'd be a huge thing. So maybe we should try to work on that if we can somewhere in the near future. But thanks again for hanging out and joining us. And I'm looking forward to making my way out your way.

Jason: We're looking forward to having you good.

Lee: Alright, good night everybody will see you.